Miscellaneous documents

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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on October 3rd 2016, 3:44 am

Rocketman wrote:
WelshChappie wrote:Kane had a fraudulent Licences etc but did Have Two genuine State issued Licences in CA & NV.  

 In Nevada He was issued a Licence in the Name 'Lawrence Cane' with an added stipulation attached of 'Restricted to Vision Lenses.'

 California Licence No. N3490622 under Alias Larry Cane.
 Nevada Licence No. X50002312 under Alias Lawrence Cane.

 After leaving the Bay Area He drove an Ambassador registered in the Co-Ownership of Lawrence Steven Klein & Irving Allen Klein both of 1033 Eden Bower Lane, Redwood City.

 As for Lawrence and His possibly being an informant...

A published article suggested Law Enforcement dropped pending charges against Him after, the article suggests, Kane agreed to 'Help Cops Out'.  He certainly seems to move around the Country with ease leaving one place to turn up in another under a slightly different name.

I think he probably was an FBI informant. It was a very very common thing back then. Maybe he was more than an informant. Maybe they gave him jobs from time to time. I wonder if his mob ties were the result of that or maybe he just liked trouble.

Being "mixed up" with the mob (is that absolutely a for sure thing?) and being an FBI informant is a good way to get yourself killed. But then again, there were certain mob figures who were in bed with the FBI and vice versa. It's not out of the question than Kane could have been an informant and working with the mob. To be honest, I think there are quite a few very interesting things about Kane that we will never know about.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by WelshChappie on October 8th 2016, 2:22 pm

Lawrence having any connection to Golden Gate Fields is the first I have heard of.  Sounds 'too convenient' a connection considering the president of the Pacific Racing Association at Golden Gate Fields was a certain Kjell Qvale AKA Mr X.

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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on October 8th 2016, 6:47 pm

WelshChappie wrote:Lawrence having any connection to Golden Gate Fields is the first I have heard of.  Sounds 'too convenient' a connection considering the president of the Pacific Racing Association at Golden Gate Fields was a certain Kjell Qvale AKA Mr X.

Here's a link to the thread in question:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/discus/messages/27/802.html?1170029017

I wasn't aware that Kjell had connections to the GGF. That does seem rather convenient.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on October 8th 2016, 9:44 pm

Galaxie500 wrote:
WelshChappie wrote:Lawrence having any connection to Golden Gate Fields is the first I have heard of.  Sounds 'too convenient' a connection considering the president of the Pacific Racing Association at Golden Gate Fields was a certain Kjell Qvale AKA Mr X.

Here's a link to the thread in question:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/discus/messages/27/802.html?1170029017

I wasn't aware that Kjell had connections to the GGF. That does seem rather convenient.

I wasn't aware of that either.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by WelshChappie on October 9th 2016, 6:29 am

I knew Qvale was resident of GGF's that's why when reading that Lawrence was said to be affiliated with the very same it immediately struck Me as either Too Convenient or too easy a connection to be established between Two of the more Prominent & Long Standing Z suspects. It would be like discovering that Richard Gaikowski 'Happened' to be Ticket Agent at the very same Theater that Richard Marshall was employed as a projectionist. 

 But Yes, I have researched Kjell's History and Love of Horses. He owed His own Ranch and hired a full time ranch hand and trainer to live on the Ranch to oversee care and training of His Champion Racers like the World Famous Silky Sullivan.

 Qvale wasn't just involved in, or The Chair of, Golden Gate Fields, Kjell was the Founder of it.  Kjell Qvale was Golden Gate Fields  Official owner  for a quarter of a Century, exactly 25 Years Straight.

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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by WelshChappie on October 9th 2016, 7:01 am

Well if Mr Q, I mean Mr X, Mr 'Speak My Name & I'll file Lawsuit alleging defamation, if He & Lawrence KAYE, who sometimes goes by Lawrence Barton, that was Born upon Earth as Lawrence Klein, but got bored and became KAYE one day then dropped dead and is honored in Nevada as 'Will never be forgotten - LAWRENCE CANE'..... Yes, yes, Lawrence just does this to frustrate the living daylights out of Welsh Chap, who will have to File FOIA requests asking for the records of arrest for a Deceased Citizen called I have no f****g clue really, so let's try them all... (When I move into the afterlife, I shall be heading straight over to Paradice and taking a rup up at Larry to deliver a well deserved right hook. 

 If Qvale and Kaye can be connected to each other via GGF then, well, the implication is clear:

  May I be issued the Gabble immediately in order to bring it down **BANG BANG BANG** on My Desk as I scream 'GUILTY! GUILTY AS CHARGED! SENTENCE. . . Larry shall be exhumed and reallocated a burial without Marked Grave, and Co-Defendant Shell Ka-Vah-Lee.....I sentence you to A term of Life ermm, in the Afterlife with No chance of Paradice Parole for Eight Hundred and Fifty Five Thousand Years & 11 Months. Take them down! 

"I shall also run away with Your Prize Winning Horse Qvale, MUUUUUUHAHAHAHAHA!"

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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by WelshChappie on October 9th 2016, 7:05 am

But No, on a serious note to GALAXY500. . .

I'm going to give you a shout out/acknowledgment at the foot of My Kane page if that be OK with You because, to be honest and giving credit where it is clearly due, You deserve it.  

 Some of the really good finds You have made in relation to Lawrence, especially the more obscure and elusive ones that a simple 'Google Search' will fail to Discover.

 I am thinking firstly about the recent Hartnell statement you published about Kane's voice/way He spoke. I had never heard that prior to Your posting that.

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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on October 9th 2016, 1:34 pm

WelshChappie wrote:But No, on a serious note to GALAXY500. . .

I'm going to give you a shout out/acknowledgment at the foot of My Kane page if that be OK with You because, to be honest and giving credit where it is clearly due, You deserve it.  

 Some of the really good finds You have made in relation to Lawrence, especially the more obscure and elusive ones that a simple 'Google Search' will fail to Discover.

 I am thinking firstly about the recent Hartnell statement you published about Kane's voice/way He spoke. I had never heard that prior to Your posting that.

Thanks, Welsh - I really do appreciate it. Of course, none of these finds would have been possible had it not been for your own contributions. Hoping to have some more stuff to share pretty soon.

Regarding the Kane-Golden Gate connection, you might try putting in an inquiry with Sandy Betts to see if she can clarify the matter and whether or not the relevant documentation is still extant.


Last edited by Galaxie500 on January 24th 2017, 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by WelshChappie on October 9th 2016, 3:04 pm

I spoke to Sandy Yesterday, She's been asked, and Has accepted and agreed, to Hos the upcoming 47th anniversary of The Presidio Height's Murder of Stine. 

 I haven't logged in to check for a reply yet but I've asked would She mind mentioning The Xenophon Anthony ID saga because I know that in previous Oct 11 Anniversary meetings the former detectives who worked the case have attended and I am really hoping one or more of them do this year once again so they can be asked directly about it. 
 
 I fully expect any Detective to deny all knowledge of it, but at least a Response of a physical denial of knowing anything about it is better than not getting to put the question to anyone at all. And they are on the record then as denying all knowledge. If documentation subsequently emerges with their name showing they were aware of that of which they have denied all knowledge of, well then that is when it's time to start directly accusing Authorities of Covering something up. May not know what it is or any details, but again, something is always better than nothing.

PS:  Added you to the Acknowledgments section on My Kane site :-)

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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by WelshChappie on October 9th 2016, 3:41 pm

Just checked emails and Sandy corrected Me that She's actually attending/Hosting the Cheri-Jo Anniversary on Oct 30th down in Riverside. She confirmed that She most certainly will bring up Xenophon Anthony and His being Identified by A witness in Presidio Hgts and told Me that She can confirm that there is a reporter from the Vallejo Times Herald She knows personally attending the meet with a view to: "Ask some questions". I can assume, I would think, these are planned questions He would like answers to for a planned article He's writing about it. 

 You may know/have heard of Him. Sandy tell's Me He's a reporter who wrote and released a Zodiac themed Book back on 27 Sept. Mark Hewitt is His Name Sandy informs Me. 

 If He picks up the Xen thing and publishes it in the Vallejo Times Herald, well that would be the dream scenario for Me cause it would open a huge can of ugly worms and these worms will need to be explained as to what they are doing there, where they came from and why these Worms were never mentioned as being in this can over here!

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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on November 5th 2016, 8:14 pm

WelshChappie wrote:Just checked emails and Sandy corrected Me that She's actually attending/Hosting the Cheri-Jo Anniversary on Oct 30th down in Riverside. She confirmed that She most certainly will bring up Xenophon Anthony and His being Identified by A witness in Presidio Hgts and told Me that She can confirm that there is a reporter from the Vallejo Times Herald She knows personally attending the meet with a view to: "Ask some questions". I can assume, I would think, these are planned questions He would like answers to for a planned article He's writing about it. 

 You may know/have heard of Him. Sandy tell's Me He's a reporter who wrote and released a Zodiac themed Book back on 27 Sept. Mark Hewitt is His Name Sandy informs Me. 

 If He picks up the Xen thing and publishes it in the Vallejo Times Herald, well that would be the dream scenario for Me cause it would open a huge can of ugly worms and these worms will need to be explained as to what they are doing there, where they came from and why these Worms were never mentioned as being in this can over here!

Good deal. Hopefully someone can shed some more light on this suspect! Those "worms" you mention could be huge! Hopefully.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on January 24th 2017, 1:57 pm

ophion1031 wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
WelshChappie wrote:Kane had a fraudulent Licences etc but did Have Two genuine State issued Licences in CA & NV.  

 In Nevada He was issued a Licence in the Name 'Lawrence Cane' with an added stipulation attached of 'Restricted to Vision Lenses.'

 California Licence No. N3490622 under Alias Larry Cane.
 Nevada Licence No. X50002312 under Alias Lawrence Cane.

 After leaving the Bay Area He drove an Ambassador registered in the Co-Ownership of Lawrence Steven Klein & Irving Allen Klein both of 1033 Eden Bower Lane, Redwood City.

 As for Lawrence and His possibly being an informant...

A published article suggested Law Enforcement dropped pending charges against Him after, the article suggests, Kane agreed to 'Help Cops Out'.  He certainly seems to move around the Country with ease leaving one place to turn up in another under a slightly different name.

I think he probably was an FBI informant. It was a very very common thing back then. Maybe he was more than an informant. Maybe they gave him jobs from time to time. I wonder if his mob ties were the result of that or maybe he just liked trouble.

Being "mixed up" with the mob (is that absolutely a for sure thing?) and being an FBI informant is a good way to get yourself killed. But then again, there were certain mob figures who were in bed with the FBI and vice versa. It's not out of the question than Kane could have been an informant and working with the mob. To be honest, I think there are quite a few very interesting things about Kane that we will never know about.

The mob speculation is largely (that is, wholly) predicated upon his association with Allen Dorfman, Dorfman having been a consultant to the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. The exact nature of Kane's affiliation with Dorfman is somewhat nebulous other than that he was (per Alex Lewis) employed as a Public Relations consultant. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the mob connection goes any deeper than that.

Similarly, I don't subscribe (nor have I ever subscribed) to the notion that Kane was an FBI informant. While it's true that Kane acted as an informant for the NYPD in the Shirley Carmel jewel robbery case, his actions in the years thereafter are entirely out of keeping with what one would expect from somebody fearing reprisal from criminal elements - maintaining the same place of domicile for an extended (relatively speaking, of course) period of time, open listings in city directories, using the same name even after being outed in newspapers across the country as an informant for the police, mixing with celebrities and other prominent figures, etc.  Likewise, his first recorded use of an alias predates his arrest history - so far as we know it - by five years.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on January 24th 2017, 8:10 pm

I have never really thought Kane was an FBI informant or mixed up with the mob either, but the possible links that could be there do make me somewhat curious. A lot of criminals, even mobsters and mob associates, were FBI and CIA informants in those days, but everyone was playing everyone I think.

Hearing the name Allen Dorfman always reminds me of this...
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on January 24th 2017, 8:55 pm

ophion1031 wrote:I have never really thought Kane was an FBI informant or mixed up with the mob either, but the possible links that could be there do make me somewhat curious. A lot of criminals, even mobsters and mob associates, were FBI and CIA informants in those days, but everyone was playing everyone I think.

Hearing the name Allen Dorfman always reminds me of this...

yeah. I'll concede that I might be wrong about this one. i mean, there's definitely a foundation for the idea that kane was an fbi informant...it's just that it isn't a particularly strong one (in my estimation, anyway.)

he was mixed up with the mob insofar as he was an employee for a mob associate, but that's as far as i'm willing to go without something a little more definitive.

here's a youtube documentary on Allen Dorfman for anybody interested -


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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on January 24th 2017, 10:32 pm

I think Kane's personality doesn't make for a good match to someone who would be a member of the mob, but maybe had some loose dealings with them. I think the FBI informant idea is probably more likely than the mob one, but both are probably not true. Kane probably wouldn't have such an extensive criminal record if he were an FBI informant, but I suppose it is possible that he could have become an informant after he had most of his issues with the law. He was arrested several times from 1946 until 1968, and then nothing again until 1980. Could make sense... maybe.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on January 24th 2017, 10:50 pm

ophion1031 wrote:Kane probably wouldn't have such an extensive criminal record if he were an FBI informant, but I suppose it is possible that he could have become an informant after he had most of his issues with the law. He was arrested several times from 1946 until 1968, and then nothing again until 1980. Could make sense... maybe.

conversely, one could easily use that to bolster the suggestion that he was an fbi informant. here's a guy with a criminal record spanning over a thirty-year period who never served more than a couple of days in jail despite multiple violations of probation, etc. I've always put it down to his supposed legal perspicacity and the fact that he was good at cultivating friendships with prominent people, but who knows?

"He was arrested several times from 1946 until 1968, and then nothing again until 1980."

He was arrested in 1979 for phone tampering but the charge is omitted from his rap sheet for some reason or another.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on January 24th 2017, 11:35 pm

I have seen a lot of other people from back then who didn't serve much time, if any, for crimes. Bill Thoresen is a perfect example. He had a lot of things that he never got charged with or just got a small fine. He may have bribed his way out of some stuff, which didn't work in Vegas... he was arrested for assault and trying to bribe officers. But there were other crimes where he got in very little trouble. Kane probably didn't go that route (bribery), but I could see him being buddies with LE officials, judges or maybe other people in a position to help him out as you mentioned. That actually makes perfect sense when it comes to Kane.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on February 10th 2017, 2:09 pm

Galaxie500 wrote:Courtesy of zodiackiller.com user Seagull:





Additional commentary on the documents posted above; originally posted by Seagull -

"I recently found these documents. I emailed them to Sandy Betts to confirm that they did pertain to the right Larry Cane and she confirmed that they did. This spelling of his last name is the one associated with his burial in the veteran's cemetery.

People have commented that because of a head injury Kane didn't have the where-with-all to function normally. I think that these papers do show he was capable enough to own and run his own business in the late '90's. He ripped someone off, was taken to court and ordered to repay that person, which he did accomplish."


http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/6265/Larry-Cane-Legal-Documents#.WJ44mtQrIf8
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on February 11th 2017, 9:16 pm

Very cool, and not at all shocking that Kane ripped someone off. He didn't seem like a very bright criminal, but then again, who knows how much shit he actually got away with. We only know of the things he was busted for. But this shows that even as an old man he was still a shady person, and I definitely agree that his head injury couldn't have stopped him from being a murderer.

Thanks for posting that, Galaxie!
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on February 11th 2017, 10:44 pm

ophion1031 wrote:Very cool, and not at all shocking that Kane ripped someone off. He didn't seem like a very bright criminal, but then again, who knows how much shit he actually got away with. We only know of the things he was busted for. But this shows that even as an old man he was still a shady person, and I definitely agree that his head injury couldn't have stopped him from being a murderer.

Thanks for posting that, Galaxie!

Yeah.

I would contend that Kane was probably endowed with greater than average intelligence and that the extensiveness of his rap sheet is more a testament to his impulsivity than anything else. He was good at getting himself into tight situations, but showed just as much proficiency at disentangling himself from those situations. According to somebody who actually knew and worked with Kane, he was very good at manipulating the legal system to his advantage. He was equipped with "an amazing knowledge of civil law" and was described by some as "the greatest salesman in the world."

Not sure how much validity this has and should probably refrain from mentioning it, but he allegedly had an IQ of 160.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on February 12th 2017, 1:59 am

Galaxie500 wrote:
ophion1031 wrote:Very cool, and not at all shocking that Kane ripped someone off. He didn't seem like a very bright criminal, but then again, who knows how much shit he actually got away with. We only know of the things he was busted for. But this shows that even as an old man he was still a shady person, and I definitely agree that his head injury couldn't have stopped him from being a murderer.

Thanks for posting that, Galaxie!

Yeah.

I would contend that Kane was probably endowed with greater than average intelligence and that the extensiveness of his rap sheet is more a testament to his impulsivity than anything else. He was good at getting himself into tight situations, but showed just as much proficiency at disentangling himself from those situations. According to somebody who actually knew and worked with Kane, he was very good at manipulating the legal system to his advantage. He was equipped with "an amazing knowledge of civil law" and was described by some as "the greatest salesman in the world."

Not sure how much validity this has and should probably refrain from mentioning it, but he allegedly had an IQ of 160.

minor clarification - the information about Kane's IQ apparently originated with Harvey Hines. Hines had access to Kane's military and mental health records so I don't necessarily see any reason to dispute the validity of the info.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on February 12th 2017, 3:57 am

Galaxie500 wrote:
ophion1031 wrote:Very cool, and not at all shocking that Kane ripped someone off. He didn't seem like a very bright criminal, but then again, who knows how much shit he actually got away with. We only know of the things he was busted for. But this shows that even as an old man he was still a shady person, and I definitely agree that his head injury couldn't have stopped him from being a murderer.

Thanks for posting that, Galaxie!

Yeah.

I would contend that Kane was probably endowed with greater than average intelligence and that the extensiveness of his rap sheet is more a testament to his impulsivity than anything else. He was good at getting himself into tight situations, but showed just as much proficiency at disentangling himself from those situations. According to somebody who actually knew and worked with Kane, he was very good at manipulating the legal system to his advantage. He was equipped with "an amazing knowledge of civil law" and was described by some as "the greatest salesman in the world."

Not sure how much validity this has and should probably refrain from mentioning it, but he allegedly had an IQ of 160.

These are things that do not surprise me one bit about Kane. I actually had a bit of a feeling he was good at manipulating the system, and this confirms it.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by Galaxie500 on February 12th 2017, 12:20 pm

ophion1031 wrote:
Galaxie500 wrote:
ophion1031 wrote:Very cool, and not at all shocking that Kane ripped someone off. He didn't seem like a very bright criminal, but then again, who knows how much shit he actually got away with. We only know of the things he was busted for. But this shows that even as an old man he was still a shady person, and I definitely agree that his head injury couldn't have stopped him from being a murderer.

Thanks for posting that, Galaxie!

Yeah.

I would contend that Kane was probably endowed with greater than average intelligence and that the extensiveness of his rap sheet is more a testament to his impulsivity than anything else. He was good at getting himself into tight situations, but showed just as much proficiency at disentangling himself from those situations. According to somebody who actually knew and worked with Kane, he was very good at manipulating the legal system to his advantage. He was equipped with "an amazing knowledge of civil law" and was described by some as "the greatest salesman in the world."

Not sure how much validity this has and should probably refrain from mentioning it, but he allegedly had an IQ of 160.

These are things that do not surprise me one bit about Kane. I actually had a bit of a feeling he was good at manipulating the system, and this confirms it.

something that most people don't take into consideration regarding kane is that many of the criminal charges brought against him were later thrown out. the first three arrests listed on his rap sheet, for example, were dismissed entirely. there's also the case where he was arrested for assaulting a uniformed police officer (his fourth arrest; subsequently expunged from his record), which terminated with results more-or-less similar to those in the first three cases. he wasn't actually convicted for anything until 1952, and even then was able to escape relatively unscathed:



Galaxie500 wrote:

Not sure how much validity this has and should probably refrain from mentioning it, but he allegedly had an IQ of 160.

correction: his IQ score is purported to have been over 160.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by ophion1031 on February 12th 2017, 9:32 pm

Damn... he probably wasn't just good at beating the system, he may have had a friend in a high place. I don't think anyone could get away with assaulting an officer and not walk away without at least probation.
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Re: Miscellaneous documents

Post by WelshChappie on February 14th 2017, 1:03 am

You could, in all likelihood, present these facts to a large number of Zodiac Case enthusiasts such as Kaye being described as extremely knowledgeable in Civil Law and His use of it to be acquitted of many a charge against Him and the majority will turn a deaf ear to it and why? Comes back to what a member replied in Tom's Chat Room years ago in regard to Kane. He\She wrote:

"We (Speaking for Others also it seemed) don't want to talk about Kane here at this site" then a few lines later said:

"I hope Kane isn't the Zodiac, Kane is just too boring."

A suspect has to meet their mental perception of who they see Zodiac as being. He is a Mythical legend in some minds and is the Genius Criminal, the worthy advisory that is 'Too clever for them' and as such, His attributes and personality must match this Myth.

Larry Kane? Far too mundane!

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