Line of work & social status

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Line of work & social status

Post by Dave Bauer on August 22nd 2015, 11:01 pm

Just curious to see what line of work and what social standing you believe the Z was in?

I'm of the opinion that he came from a middle class family and was himself middle class, probably having employment at gas stations, as a janitor etc. Social standing, I think he was very unpopular at a youngster and eventually made a dozen somewhat good friends (or drinking buddies) as an adult.
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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by ophion1031 on August 22nd 2015, 11:48 pm

This is one of the tougher questions to answer. He could have been dirt poor and had a shitty job like janitor, or he could have been some rich guy with an "important" job, which could mean he had some sort of protection.

Another questions is if Zodiac had a criminal record. If he was some lowlife criminal, his prints would be on file and I'd imagine the police compared most criminals they had on file to whatever prints they have, even though I'm not completely sold on them having any prints or DNA on Zodiac.
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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by The Virus on August 26th 2015, 12:45 am

i couldnt tell ya what line of work the guy was in but i think he was on the poor side and also think he had some sort of 'handy man' type of job.
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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by WelshChappie on October 11th 2016, 5:44 pm

Well, Serial Killers are usually your average Nobody who works in some factory in obscurity for slightly above the Minimum wage. 

 - Gary Ridgway: Factory line Vehicle Spray Painter.

 - Dennis Rader: Animal Control Officer.

 - Jeff Dahmer: Food Factory Production Worker. 

However, there are rare exceptions to this rule every now and then. The Serial Killer that comes to mind as one of these rare exceptions is Robert Hansen. He owned and ram A successful bakery that quickly allowed Hansen to become an 'Employer' rather than 'Employee.' He was financially well off and owned His own single engine air-craft, an air-craft He used to transport victms to His remote rural playing ground where He'd release blindfolded women before Hunting them down and shooting them. 

 Is there any reason to believe Z was prominent in the eyes of Society? Well, a highly respected and professional Behavioral Analyst think so. 

 Richard Walter not only worked as A Criminal Profiler, He teaches it. Wikipedia Notes: "Walter gives lectures to police organizations throughout the United StatesEnglandScotlandTurkeyAustralia and Hong Kong. He has also been featured on programs for CBSA&ETLC and Court TV.




Above: Richard Walter

 Walter agreed to look at this case and went to each crime location, read the Zodiac's letters, learned as much detail about His actions at the scenes etc and came up with a profile that shocked most who read it.

 Zodiac, Walter stated,  has not been caught because He isn't the type of individual everyone is looking at as possible suspects. Law Enforcement were looking at the wrong type of person in all the wrong place's. 
 
 Zodiac, He concluded, is not motivate by His own lack of Power, Status and Control in His every day life and feels the need to kill to compensate for it. No, on the contrary, Says Walter, this man has a great deal of power & control in His professional life. It's that great sense of Power and Control, superiority if you want, this itself is simply not enough for Him anymore.  He want's more, He craves not only extra power, or more control, this type pf individual, He want's to feel the Ultimate Sense of Power & Control, which comes only from having The Power & Control over Life and Death itself. 

  He want's to feel that Ultimate Sense of Control and that comes with His knowing He can  and will decide if an individual will live or die.

 He said words to the effect: 'Zodiac hasn't been found because people are looking in the wrong place and at the wrong type of suspect.' 

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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by Sick E. Von Brutal on October 12th 2016, 12:50 am

WelshChappie wrote:Well, Serial Killers are usually your average Nobody who works in some factory in obscurity for slightly above the Minimum wage. 

 - Gary Ridgway: Factory line Vehicle Spray Painter.

 - Dennis Rader: Animal Control Officer.

 - Jeff Dahmer: Food Factory Production Worker. 

However, there are rare exceptions to this rule every now and then. The Serial Killer that comes to mind as one of these rare exceptions is Robert Hansen. He owned and ram A successful bakery that quickly allowed Hansen to become an 'Employer' rather than 'Employee.' He was financially well off and owned His own single engine air-craft, an air-craft He used to transport victms to His remote rural playing ground where He'd release blindfolded women before Hunting them down and shooting them. 

 Is there any reason to believe Z was prominent in the eyes of Society? Well, a highly respected and professional Behavioral Analyst think so. 

 Richard Walter not only worked as A Criminal Profiler, He teaches it. Wikipedia Notes: "Walter gives lectures to police organizations throughout the United StatesEnglandScotlandTurkeyAustralia and Hong Kong. He has also been featured on programs for CBSA&ETLC and Court TV.




Above: Richard Walter

 Walter agreed to look at this case and went to each crime location, read the Zodiac's letters, learned as much detail about His actions at the scenes etc and came up with a profile that shocked most who read it.

 Zodiac, Walter stated,  has not been caught because He isn't the type of individual everyone is looking at as possible suspects. Law Enforcement were looking at the wrong type of person in all the wrong place's. 
 
 Zodiac, He concluded, is not motivate by His own lack of Power, Status and Control in His every day life and feels the need to kill to compensate for it. No, on the contrary, Says Walter, this man has a great deal of power & control in His professional life. It's that great sense of Power and Control, superiority if you want, this itself is simply not enough for Him anymore.  He want's more, He craves not only extra power, or more control, this type pf individual, He want's to feel the Ultimate Sense of Power & Control, which comes only from having The Power & Control over Life and Death itself. 

  He want's to feel that Ultimate Sense of Control and that comes with His knowing He can  and will decide if an individual will live or die.

 He said words to the effect: 'Zodiac hasn't been found because people are looking in the wrong place and at the wrong type of suspect.' 

but those guys are usually caught and zodiac has a much different feel to it and wasn't the typical case. serial killers cant stop doing their thing the way zodiac supposedly did. that really makes me think it wasn't just one psychotic dude but that there was some sort of plan by the gov't or a group of some kind but who would have a motive or something to gain from the murders?
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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by Soze on January 12th 2017, 8:31 am

I see the Zodiac growing up in a household where he felt inferior. He could have been made to feel this way or it could just be feelings he perceived on his own (a born attention seeker who didn't quite get the attention he sought and internalized it negatively).

I feel his killing and ultimate letter writing campaign is an indication that he had had enough, enough of, being third rate to everyone else. He killed and wrote his letters to show the world that he was intelligent and that he was capable of doing great things. He did manage to write his letters and escape detection for nearly 50 years. I don't think he could have pulled that off without careful thought and planning. I do think he was a smart man but very lost emotionally.

Now in our eyes, killing, is on the bottom end of the "great things" we could do. However, to someone who may have had zero opportunities (talking finances for college and the like) or to someone who may have failed miserably in whatever legal adventures he may have taken part in, killing is neither at the top or the bottom; it's all he had (at least in the spectrum of filling the "I'm important" void).

People who are depressed or, go through what I am implying with the Zodiac, have a tendency toward what I call "I itis". To these people everything is I, I and ,I. This self inflating ego would ruin any potential friendships. Given this I think he had very few friends if any true friend at all.

I believe the writing to the press served two purposes for the Zodiac. First, the press, is getting his message out. The press is helping to fulfill that "I itis" he has of being important. However, given the way he writes (the words he uses) and specifically who he is writing to (editors), I feel that goes to show a possible trade. In my mindset I see him wanting to be in newspaper business (perhaps a reporter), failing to reach that level of perceived importance and thinking, well, if I can't write the news then I will make it. I think he knew all about the business and there are very strong indications that he knew typography from beginning to end.

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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by ophion1031 on January 14th 2017, 8:10 pm

Soze wrote:I see the Zodiac growing up in a household where he felt inferior. He could have been made to feel this way or it could just be feelings he perceived on his own (a born attention seeker who didn't quite get the attention he sought and internalized it negatively).

I feel his killing and ultimate letter writing campaign is an indication that he had had enough, enough of, being third rate to everyone else. He killed and wrote his letters to show the world that he was intelligent and that he was capable of doing great things. He did manage to write his letters and escape detection for nearly 50 years. I don't think he could have pulled that off without careful thought and planning. I do think he was a smart man but very lost emotionally.

Now in our eyes, killing, is on the bottom end of the "great things" we could do. However, to someone who may have had zero opportunities (talking finances for college and the like) or to someone who may have failed miserably in whatever legal adventures he may have taken part in, killing is neither at the top or the bottom; it's all he had (at least in the spectrum of filling the "I'm important" void).

People who are depressed or, go through what I am implying with the Zodiac, have a tendency toward what I call "I itis". To these people everything is I, I and ,I. This self inflating ego would ruin any potential friendships. Given this I think he had very few friends if any true friend at all.

I believe the writing to the press served two purposes for the Zodiac. First, the press, is getting his message out. The press is helping to fulfill that "I itis" he has of being important. However, given the way he writes (the words he uses) and specifically who he is writing to (editors), I feel that goes to show a possible trade. In my mindset I see him wanting to be in newspaper business (perhaps a reporter), failing to reach that level of perceived importance and thinking, well, if I can't write the news then I will make it. I think he knew all about the business and there are very strong indications that he knew typography from beginning to end.

Soze

Do you think killing WAS his big accomplishment or do you think he was accomplished in whatever profession he worked in?
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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by Don Pseuym on January 19th 2017, 7:31 am

L E is the #3 occupation of serious criminals
Yes many are not employed
2 to 5% of most occupations are criminal
FBI pointed out law enforcement it was 7 to 10 % on average 15% at times

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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by ophion1031 on January 21st 2017, 8:25 pm

Don Pseuym wrote:L E is the #3  occupation of serious criminals
Yes many are not employed
2 to 5% of  most occupations are criminal
FBI  pointed out  law enforcement it was 7 to 10 % on average  15% at times

And that is not surprising, at least to me anyways. I know a lot of people have looked into Zodiac possibly being law enforcement, and it is definitely possible.
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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by WelshChappie on January 25th 2017, 7:14 am

I don't see Zodiac (The Man) as an individual who killed to feel He'd accomplished or achieved something to compensate for His inner feelings of worthlessness.

From My personal perspective, I see thus man as having more distain and hostility for Law Agencies than He did for the victims He killed. He didn't try and embarrass the victims by posing them in certain positions, removing clothing etc, He simply, to quote Chief Lee: "Doesn't get great pleasure from it. He thinks killing is just killing."

Its His pursuers He engages at length, not His victims. Its Law Officers He ridiculed, not His Victims. The victims are informally referred to as a boy, or a girl, or 'The Taxi Driver'. BNo hostility or derogatory name calling for them he killed, but Toschi is A Pig, Fouke & co. are inept blue meanies and He will embarrass the SFPD with joyful glee!

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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by ophion1031 on January 25th 2017, 7:59 pm

I agree! If you break everything down, Zodiac wan unlike your average serial killer. Most of them work within certain patterns. Zodiac really didn't. "He thinks killing is just killing" is the perfect quote, and I agree with that 100%.
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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by WelshChappie on February 18th 2017, 3:48 am

ophion1031 wrote:I agree! If you break everything down, Zodiac wan unlike your average serial killer. Most of them work within certain patterns. Zodiac really didn't. "He thinks killing is just killing" is the perfect quote, and I agree with that 100%.

 Yep. Killing was just Killing to Him, as in, it was a simple necessity and something that needed to be done in order that He challenge Law Enforcement & point out how utterly useless they are. 

 I said previous, His victims were killed, in most cases, as soon as He encounters them via shootings. No sexual assault. No removal of garments and posing of the females in a undignified pose. Like you said Chad, Killing is just that, Killing and then He vanishes.

 Most serials, if they are motivated by power and domination over others then the 'Others' will be the victims. Not in Zodiac's case. He seemed to want power and domination over The Bay Area's Law Agencies because it was these that He targeted for Humiliation and embarrassment. He wrote the 2 cops pulled a goof with specific instruction written at the side with arrows: "Must print in paper" that specific Knock Out blow He's thrown at Chief Lee for His telling lies about Zodiac. 

 Lee starts the war of words in the Chronicle by calling Z a Latent Homosexual and clumsy criminal. Lee threw the first proverbial punch at Zodiac, and Zodiac threw right hand back that K.O'd the SFPD. 

 Chief Lee was photographed by Chronicles Paul Slavery as Lee is leaving the Chronicle after Mr Slavery's Editor goes to press with Zodiac's published response. . .


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Re: Line of work & social status

Post by Sick E. Von Brutal on February 26th 2017, 8:16 pm

I don't think zodiac had a meaningful job. he was probably a laborer of some sort. maybe a janitor. I think he was educated and very smart and not having a good job probably had a little to do with him going crazy and becoming a killer.
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