Washington & Maple because...

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Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on August 26th 2015, 7:27 pm

Maple & Washington streets
Because everyone in the Bay area likely knew what was there.
The most prestigious home in San Francisco, a mansion from the turn of the century buiit with money from the us gov. contract of suppling wool for army uniforms .
A few years ago it was for sale at 25 million

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Matthew Mayer on August 26th 2015, 7:53 pm

Do you happen to know who lived there in 1969? Wasn't it Robert Hunter (?) of the Grateful Dead?

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on August 26th 2015, 8:01 pm

I did not know that, but heard a G Dead member lived in or near  the Presideo and all the band members hung out there
it would be too weird if it was ...huh  there is a new book about the Greatful dead and there exploits in the 60's
The book says Jerry Garcia was obcessed with the Zodiac killer and even dedicated a concert to him... very weird
I saw a pic of the house some Greatful Dead member had in SFCA it was a big house but not that mansion, kind of run down .

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on August 29th 2015, 10:18 pm

I'm pretty sure Robert Hunter lived on Washington, somewhere between Maple and Cherry. I don't think he moved there until early 1970, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on August 30th 2015, 10:56 am

here is the article about Garcia dedicating a show to the Zodiac killer
http://www.popmatters.com/feature/193087-so-many-roads-the-life-and-times-of-the-grateful-dead/

I'd bet Zodiac was at or near the concert grounds that weekend

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on August 30th 2015, 11:41 am

that home at washington & maple is known as the -wool mansion- because the builder was austrialian who got the US gov contract for selling wool for army uniforms around 1900

The 340 cipher has the word wool on line 3 or something that looks like it the O have lines thru them

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Matthew Mayer on August 30th 2015, 8:01 pm

ophion1031 wrote:I'm pretty sure Robert Hunter lived on Washington, somewhere between Maple and Cherry. I don't think he moved there until early 1970, but I could be wrong.

I have read a great deal about Robert Hunter (RH) and have never seen anything posted about him not moving into that home until 1970. Where did you find this information?



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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on August 31st 2015, 12:12 am

Matthew Mayer wrote:
ophion1031 wrote:I'm pretty sure Robert Hunter lived on Washington, somewhere between Maple and Cherry. I don't think he moved there until early 1970, but I could be wrong.

I have read a great deal about Robert Hunter (RH) and have never seen anything posted about him not moving into that home until 1970. Where did you find this information?



Matthew

I don't remember, but I think someone at another message board found a record of Hunter not buying the house until early 1970. I will see if I can find it again just to be certain.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on August 31st 2015, 9:08 am

That W&M mansion had a row of apartments to the west above the garages for the servants
maybe Z had some tie to them or was one .
If Robert Hiunter was living nearby it is a big deal that has been overlooked IMO

I am interested in which concert Garcia dedicated to the Zodiac and if he did it over the mic
the book says early in his career, so this 10/12/69 Summer of Love in San Fran would be a good time to do it .

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on September 1st 2015, 12:13 am

Don Pseuym wrote:That W&M mansion had a row of apartments to the west above  the garages for  the servants
maybe Z had some tie to them or was one .
If Robert Hiunter was living nearby it is a big deal  that has been overlooked  IMO

I am interested in which concert Garcia dedicated to the Zodiac and if he did it over the mic
the book says early in his career, so this 10/12/69 Summer of Love in San Fran would be a good time to do it .

Do you think it's possible that Jerry Garcia was friends with Zodiac? I am not 100% sure, but I think somebody found that Hunter was not living in that neighborhood in 1969 and moved in there in 1970. I looked for where that was posted (on Morf's site), but could not find it. Z being a servant? Hmmm, that's interesting. I doubt he was, but ya never know. I would probably want to kill people if I were a servant, but that's besides the point. Laughing
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on September 1st 2015, 7:15 am

09.01.2015

no likely not the book says Jerry was terrified he would meet him though, Garcia could have meant it jokingly and to get Z to converse with him ,that would help find and id him
maybe maybe he knew someone that worked there at sometime he may have stayed there for a while
places like the mansion have many VIP private events with wealthy attendies and hire security guards too

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Galaxie500 on September 1st 2015, 11:48 am

ophion1031 wrote:I'm pretty sure Robert Hunter lived on Washington, somewhere between Maple and Cherry. I don't think he moved there until early 1970, but I could be wrong.

The Robert Hunter who owned the house on Washington & Maple (per Ed Neil, Hunter didn't acquire the property until some time in 1970) was a banker - no relation to the Grateful Dead lyricist of the same name.

SFGate - Robert Hunter Jr. Obituary
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on September 2nd 2015, 12:04 am

Galaxie500 wrote:
ophion1031 wrote:I'm pretty sure Robert Hunter lived on Washington, somewhere between Maple and Cherry. I don't think he moved there until early 1970, but I could be wrong.

The Robert Hunter who owned the house on Washington & Maple (per Ed Neil, Hunter didn't acquire the property until some time in 1970) was a banker - no relation to the Grateful Dead lyricist of the same name.

SFGate - Robert Hunter Jr. Obituary


Oh, wow! Not even the same Robert Hunter. I never knew that. Thanks for posting and clearing that up.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by The Conquerer on September 2nd 2015, 9:16 pm

That particular neighborhood did not necisarily have any significance it could have just been a random spot that Zodiac had Stine drive to.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Rocketman on October 5th 2015, 10:16 pm

The Conquerer wrote:That particular neighborhood did not necisarily have any significance it could have just been a random spot that Zodiac had Stine drive to.

But nobosy knows for certain. Maybe he picked that spot for some exact reason.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on October 6th 2015, 6:26 am

IMO If you killed someone at the most notable residence it was planned. Most of those homes have a room near the road,front that is not used ,so it would be harder to see the street
I have a theory Z may have gave stine a $10 then said take me to the mansion ,paul s thinking this guys no threat

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on October 6th 2015, 7:49 pm

William Thoresen III may have had beef with an architect that lived at the corner of Washington & Cherry in 1966. Not sure when he moved but he wasn't living there in 1969. Maybe Thoresen paid someone to kill a cabbie at that corner thinking he was sending the architect a message and not knowing the architect had moved.

I also think there could have been a friendship between Thoresen and Kjell Qvale and that could have had something to do with Stine's murder. I just think that calculating the odds of all these things would favor towards Thoresen being somehow involved in the murder, even if he just had some minor role in it. The guy was a complete psycho and lived very close to the murder scene. I always ask myself if it can just be a coincidence. Under normal circumstances, I doubt it. But in the Presidio in the late 60's, who knows? There were a lot of weirdos running around. No offense to anyone who hung out there during that time because there were some brilliant and unique people (Ben Van Meter comes to mind) hanging out there as well.

San Francisco was the place to be in 1969. There are so many different options and theories that can and have been discussed when it comes to Stine's murder.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Galaxie500 on December 12th 2015, 12:20 pm

ophion1031 wrote:
Galaxie500 wrote:
ophion1031 wrote:I'm pretty sure Robert Hunter lived on Washington, somewhere between Maple and Cherry. I don't think he moved there until early 1970, but I could be wrong.

The Robert Hunter who owned the house on Washington & Maple (per Ed Neil, Hunter didn't acquire the property until some time in 1970) was a banker - no relation to the Grateful Dead lyricist of the same name.

SFGate - Robert Hunter Jr. Obituary


Oh, wow! Not even the same Robert Hunter. I never knew that. Thanks for posting and clearing that up.

Strangely enough, one of the frequently mentioned Z suspects did have a connection, albeit tenuous, to the Grateful Dead - Larry Kane was employed by Mickey Hart's father (Leonard B. Hart) as a real estate broker for a short duration in early 1954.


Last edited by Galaxie500 on December 29th 2015, 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on December 12th 2015, 7:03 pm

I saw an article back in 2011 that said the U drives of washington &. Maple @ jackon where used as lovers lanes and 4 hookers
And that a couple were attacked in Jan 68 , the man killed  and the police suggested it was a setup  , she contested she ran as the man came up to the car and just started shooting

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on January 4th 2016, 8:43 pm

Do you have a link or newspaper article about the 1968 attack? Would be interesting to see. Or any other details at all?
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on January 5th 2016, 7:46 am

No ,I saw this in 2010?  on ZKS im sure someone there posted a link to this newspaper article mostly about the U drives being used for sex with hookers  and residents complaints ,at the bottom of the article it told of the attack. I may have saved it on a old computer I had then . I reposted it at the 1st ZSK site and being a newby there only morf was friendly .  I remember it as in January of 68  I will try looking again asap

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on January 5th 2016, 11:23 pm

I will try to find some info on that. Would be interesting to read and compare to the Stine murder.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by ophion1031 on January 20th 2016, 1:59 am

Since there has been debates over Zodiac possibly riding in the front seat of the cab and also why the log book was a block off... I will throw this idea out there. Perhaps Zodiac WAS in the back seat until they got to Washington & Maple. Stine pulls over there, which is the destination in the log book. Zodiac gets out and then says to Stine "ya know what, this is the wrong intersection. Can you drive me up another block to Cherry?" Maybe he just hops in the front at that point since it's only a block away?

Stine's sister Carol stated that Paul only let close friends ride in the front seat and Tom Voigt thinks Stine and Gaikowski knew each other (he also stated that Carol had recognized Gaik from photos taken at Paul's funeral) and that Gaik could have been riding shotgun in Paul's cab that night. That is why I am throwing my idea out there because it's not a definite that someone Stine did not know could be riding in the front seat.
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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by Don Pseuym on January 20th 2016, 8:15 am

Letting someone ride in the frt seat was way against   cabby 101 though.  Most cabs kept that seat full.of their items and package deliveries  so you could not do it. The rear_view mirrors  were set to watch the passengers and alone you had to sit behind the driver so he could do that. If he was in the frt R seat how would he shoot Paul easily in the back of the head?  Cab drivers always wanted the exact address of the destination for the log maybe Z said he didnt know the house number but is was near Maple 
And there paul starts looking at homes as Z described. I think Z may have picked Presideo 
And gave Paul Big tip so he thought he was in no danger

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Re: Washington & Maple because...

Post by JohnFester on June 19th 2016, 9:49 pm

I think it was stated elsewhere that Stine would let friends ride in the front of his cab.
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