Mind control in the bay area

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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on January 31st 2017, 3:44 am

I can't save that drawing (or the handwriting sample) you emailed to me for some reason. I was going to post it like you asked, but it won't save. I will try again from another computer when I get a chance and see if that works.

It's weird that you said "trial run" because a couple of years ago a friend of mine had mentioned two murders that he thought Zodiac may have been responsible for, and he said the same thing, that the murders were so similar and that he thought the first was a "trial run." I forget the names of the victims, but I remember I looked on the Zodiac sites when I first started going to them, and it was two names that were not mentioned anywhere. My friend looked for similar patterns - murders that were alike, in the same locations and within a month of each other. He never visited or even knew about the Zodiac sites around the web though, and I think that would have helped him. He also told me that his grandfather was a young cop in Oakland (I think... it was somewhere in the bay area) when Zodiac was "doing his thing" and that he and his partner somehow came upon a guy who they thought was Zodiac. They couldn't get any of their superiors to take them seriously but they did investigate the guy, behind the scenes (meaning without authorization), and put a file together on the suspect. My friend had seen this file before but he didn't really tell me anything besides the person's name, which I believe was Richard Heller. Unfortunately my friend passed away just before I really started getting into the Zodiac case so we didn't get to discuss the case all that much.

Sorry, got off topic a bit.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by sandy betts on January 31st 2017, 11:30 am

That is interesting. I wonder if one of the cops was in the Hayward area? Because there was one who was in touch with me about a suspect, but he never gave the guys name.Only that they arrested him for a robbery.And that he was stalking some young woman who later turned up murdered.

The idea of trial runs could have been brought up because of the Stine case? There were a few runs to that same area around that same time in cabs. Perhaps to see just how long it took police to respond to that area? That could be why Zodiac thought he had plenty of time to so what he did? I would like to talk to the other cab drivers who saw the person that robbed them in that area?

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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on January 31st 2017, 10:10 pm

I wish I had more info on the Heller guy. I don't know if he was ever arrested for robbery or not.

I think there are some other stories regarding cabs being robbed or cab drivers assaulted not long before the Stine murder, and another interesting thing as that there was some bad blood between Yellow Cab and the smaller cab companies in San Fran and there was even a lawsuit. I think I posted about that somewhere.........

EDIT: Here we go. Towards the bottom of the first page.
http://zodiackiller.forumotion.com/t511-sf-directory-possible-pois
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on February 1st 2017, 3:30 am

Sandy, I found it. This might be the "test run" before the Stine murder. The guy was the same height as what was described in the Stine murder, but Stine's killer was about 50 lbs heavier and had darker hair. One thing people should keep in mind is that dark hair grease was popular with men in those days, they used it to slick their hair back as well as make it darker.

http://zodiackiller.forumotion.com/t526-a-very-similar-attack-11-days-prior
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by follow the clews on February 19th 2017, 2:02 am

I think the gov't did use MKUltra subjects for certain things but I can't see it in this case. Maybe they did, but I would be pretty surprised by that.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on March 4th 2017, 10:31 pm

follow the clews wrote:I think the gov't did use MKUltra subjects for certain things but I can't see it in this case. Maybe they did, but I would be pretty surprised by that.

I don't blame you for thinking that, but it is possible.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on March 4th 2017, 10:33 pm

Since we were talking about possible "test runs" before the murders Zodiac took credit for, maybe this would tie in with the MK Ultra idea. Especially if they were using test subjects to commit the murders. It kinda makes sense.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Eldorado on March 5th 2017, 1:48 am

Sidney Gottlieb

Employee of Lockheed Martin, doing Defense Dept research on SR-71........and other technologies at Area 51.

Called Paradise Ranch.......or Dreamland.

Ringleader of the MK 2 Ultra Experiment, with branches of Operations Northwoods, and CoIntelPro under his direction......

BTW he had a Club Foot......he walked with a Limp.......IE Paul Stine.

Lee Harvey Oswald was sent to the Soviet Union to achieve contacts, to create a Titanium Export business, that was used to smuggle massive amounts of Titanium to the US to be made into the Spy Plane at the Ranch......Area 51.

DB COOPER's Clip On Tie......was found to have a lot of titanium particles on it....the kind found in minute sized particles, having been in the proximity of smelting, or manufacturing with the metal.


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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by The Virus on March 5th 2017, 2:09 am

Good point about Cooper's tie! I wasn't aware of Oswald smuggling (or attempting to smuggle) titanium. So if you have figured out some of the people who are behind the planning, who do you think they had carry out the Zodiac killings? Did they do it themselves or have mk ultra subjects do the killing?
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by The Virus on March 5th 2017, 2:12 am

Something else interesting is that Gottlieb was not much older than Larry Kane and was from the same place as Kane was from. Gottlieb also had a master's in speech therapy and we know there are some suspects who had a stutter. Gottlieb himself had a stutter as well.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by The Virus on March 5th 2017, 2:14 am

Ophion what was the name of that psychologist that lived at the corner of Washington and Cherry and do you think he could have been mixed up in all of this? I remember reading months ago about how you thought he may have been involved in the mk ultra experiments.

Would it be possible that Gottlieb was involved with the minutemen? Check out this part of his wiki page,
"In March 1960, under The Cuban Project, a CIA plan approved by President Eisenhower—and under the direction of CIA Directorate for Plans, Richard M. Bissell—Gottlieb proposed spraying Fidel Castro's television studio with LSD and saturating Castro's shoes with thallium to make his beard fall out. Gottlieb also hatched schemes to assassinate Castro, including the use of a poisoned cigar, a poisoned wetsuit, an exploding conch shell, and a poisonous fountain pen. [3] Gottlieb also played a role in the CIA's attempt to assassinate Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba of the Congo; he took a vial of poison to the Congo with plans to place it on Lumumba's toothbrush in the summer of 1960.[4][5] He transported these "toxic biological materials" to Larry Devlin, the CIA station chief in the Congo, although Devlin declined the assignment and a military coup soon deposed Lumumba by other means.[6] Gottlieb also wanted Iraq's General Abdul Karim Qassim's handkerchief to be contaminated with botulinum."

Remember the minutemen had mentioned using a poisonous fountain pen. And Gottlieb (after what I have read about him) seems like someone who would be friendly with minutemen founder Bob DePugh.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Eldorado on March 5th 2017, 2:27 am

Poisonous Fountain Pen.....

@ The Virus

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT LEAD AND HINT

The Theme to look for in this one.....


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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on March 5th 2017, 2:48 am

The poison pen!! I know there were CIA members planted in the Minutemen, and possibly vice versa, so some members of the Minutemen could have been involved in this and maybe they used Troy Houghton to commit the murders. Houghton had a close likeness to the Stine sketch, after all. AND the Minutemen used the crosshair symbol. But one would have to believe that Houghton was not assassinated by fellow Minutemen in order for him to have been able to commit the Zodiac murders. We do know that there were rumors of Houghton working with the CIA and that was the reason he was either assassinated or that he went underground. There is also the rumor that he worked with the CIA in assisting their patsy, James Earl Ray, in the MLK assassination.

I agree that Gottlieb and DePugh had a lot in common and DePugh worked with pharmaceuticals (sp?) if I'm not mistaken.

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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on March 5th 2017, 2:50 am

"The extra fountain pen in the pocket of the insurance salesman who calls on you might be a cyanide gas gun."

Can that be a coincidence???
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on March 5th 2017, 3:00 am

The Virus wrote:Ophion what was the name of that psychologist that lived at the corner of Washington and Cherry and do you think he could have been mixed up in all of this? I remember reading months ago about how you thought he may have been involved in the mk ultra experiments.

Would it be possible that Gottlieb was involved with the minutemen? Check out this part of his wiki page,
"In March 1960, under The Cuban Project, a CIA plan approved by President Eisenhower—and under the direction of CIA Directorate for Plans, Richard M. Bissell—Gottlieb proposed spraying Fidel Castro's television studio with LSD and saturating Castro's shoes with thallium to make his beard fall out. Gottlieb also hatched schemes to assassinate Castro, including the use of a poisoned cigar, a poisoned wetsuit, an exploding conch shell, and a poisonous fountain pen. [3] Gottlieb also played a role in the CIA's attempt to assassinate Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba of the Congo; he took a vial of poison to the Congo with plans to place it on Lumumba's toothbrush in the summer of 1960.[4][5] He transported these "toxic biological materials" to Larry Devlin, the CIA station chief in the Congo, although Devlin declined the assignment and a military coup soon deposed Lumumba by other means.[6] Gottlieb also wanted Iraq's General Abdul Karim Qassim's handkerchief to be contaminated with botulinum."

Remember the minutemen had mentioned using a poisonous fountain pen. And Gottlieb (after what I have read about him) seems like someone who would be friendly with minutemen founder Bob DePugh.

Dr. Meyer Aaron Zeligs was the guy you are talking about. He was too old to be Z himself, but my idea was that Zodiac may have been one of his patients due to the location of his office and his home. There is a thread on Zeligs. I was looking into Zeligs being involved in MK Ultra, but never found anything. It's possible, though.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Eldorado on March 5th 2017, 3:25 am

If you look at the letters, you will find one statement that fits this scenario of the mind controlled assassins.....

It says specifically that "I have a long list of people that society won't miss" in reference to using criminals and metal patients as scapegoats for quick arrests...

These were subtly added into the ciphers to appear like the person was adding their name as a signature, when these were either triggers embedded to induce a "Command Hallucination" or attempts to leave behind false evidence to implicate them.

They already arrested the Zodiac says the NYPD......LOL

They tried to get this guy to act "Like" the zodiac to force a confession.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heriberto_Seda

Yet his ciphers and drawings he made were a fantasy he was developing as a patient from this experiment.....

Remember Cruz was a Harvard Grad and Princeton Grad..........he was there around the same time as Ted Kazynski.....

Ted was so smart but rejected by the elite that they Monarched him........the same as they did to John Nash.....they both were into advanced Mathematics and could solve decades old problems in rapid time.....Nash inventing the mathematical equations for Game Theory, a military application for the Nuclear Cold War strategists who developed the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction....and Ted Kazynski was the person who was featured in many journals of having aced a problem that the smartest minds couldnt fathom.....

In all, 16 bombs—which injured 23 people and killed three—were attributed to Kaczynski. While the devices varied widely through the years, all but the first few contained the initials "FC." Inside his bombs, certain parts carried the inscription "FC," which Kaczynski later asserted stood for "Freedom Club."[40] Latent fingerprints on some of the devices did not match the fingerprints found on letters attributed to Kaczynski. As stated in the "Additional Findings" section of the FBI affidavit (where a balanced listing of other uncorrelated evidence and contrary determinations also appeared):

   203. Latent fingerprints attributable to devices mailed and/or placed by the UNABOM subject were compared to those found on the letters attributed to Theodore Kaczynski. According to the FBI Laboratory no forensic correlation exists between those samples.[42]

This means that some of them were not his.

They knew who was making the bombs, as they had planned it out at Harvard for him to be the programmed Bomber.....

So they sent one in that gave him away.....

To steal his mathematics and then discredit his sanity......except that Nash knew who was behind it.......

Kazynski was unaware that he was being prepared to commit these murders....and yes they did conduct this very experiment on him @ Harvard.........where Cruz was busy inheriting the position as the "Most brilliant Mathematician to come out of Harvard" in those years.....

They were also bumping out Nash from Princeton with discrediting articles arguing against his theories......

So this is all so that nobody who can trace the agendas back to the actual witnesses can be trusted, as legitimate witnesses in court.....and anything they say can be discredited as invalid...

They even did this to Admiral Byrd.....

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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Eldorado on March 5th 2017, 3:38 am

The Minutemen were among a dozen groups that were targeted for infiltration and subversion through informants feeding them false intel and reports.....to trigger desired reactions....

MOVE, The BLACK PANTHERS, OSHO RASHNEESH, and many other groups were either run by these infiltration agents or were started by them to lure unsuspecting members into their cults....

Jonestown, and the cult in Matamoros was all CIA run.....

The notorious drug lord took the fall for this one.....

http://www.mischiefmagazine.com/2016/02/the-cult-killings-of-matamoros/

But wouldn't you know that George Bush Jr. was also a member of this border town cult....... a good friend of the drug lord who ran it apparently.....

[quote="Bush, the son of a billioniare, was strangely living in the most impoverished place in America, Brownsville; living nearby to and also inside the headquarters of a Satanic Cult of which he was a member. Bush disappeared for three days during which ALL of the other of his fellow Cult Members were slaughtered. After he reappeared he could not explain where he had been. The local prosecutor continued to pursue Bush, sole Cult survivor, on mass murder charges for six months thereafter, heavily pressured by Daddy Bush to stop the investigation. For asking these questions the reporters were threatened with reprisals later by Bush and thereafter have feared for their life. Currently, as to 2004, Bush and Kerry have long been members of a Satanic Cult, Skull & Bones (Yale)"

At one time Daddy Bush owned Texas Commerce Bank implicated in the drug traffic through their branch in Venezuela. That unit, starting about 1979, was run by Jeb Bush living in Venezuela with his latino wife. They laundered the drug proceeds from Colombia and from there, through Mexico to the U.S. The Bush Crime Family has for many years been business partners with the co-founder of the Medelin, Colombia drug cartel, Carlos Lehder.

One of those convicted of the satantic cult mass murders in the Brownsville/Matamoros region and elsewhere was a fellow named [Henry Leee] Lucas. When George W. Bush was Governor of Texas, he mysteriously granted clemency to this mass-murderer. Yet, there was no basis in law or fact for the Governor to so favor Lucas, other than the Bush Crime Family was in business with him in respect to the drug trafficking and satanic cult operations of the Brownsville/ Matamoros region.

By 1999, some reporters had attempted to question George W. Bush as to some of the foregoing, while Bush was planning to run for President in the U.S. 2000 Election. As the head of an investigative group and Founder/Chairman, since 1963 of the Citizen’s Committee to Clean Up the Courts, Skolnick began relating, on various radio talk shows, the problems the reporters were having in confronting George W. Bush with his apparent complicity in the satanic cult mass murders in the Brownsville, Texas area.][/quote]

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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Rocketman on March 5th 2017, 5:33 pm

I know there is a thread here somewhere that gives specific names of CIA agents who had become leaders in the Minutemen. Maybe the reasoning behind the infiltration is to use the minutemen for certain jobs like the JFK and RFK assassinations. We know there are Minutemen connections in both plus the King assassination.

Speaking of the Bush family. Sounds like George Sr is on his way out. I hope he rots in hell like the nazi scum that he is.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by ophion1031 on March 5th 2017, 8:28 pm

The media will make a big deal about it when George Sr. kicks the bucket, but I will be celebrating. He is one of the top 10 worst human beings of all time. Fuck that guy and his whole family!!!

I didn't know of that link between Bush and Henry Lee Lucas... that is some crazy shit! But not at all surprising.
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Eldorado on March 5th 2017, 9:48 pm

All they did was use some men for their ops and provided the evidence that exposed cover ups......

They were pretty stupid to take the fall for them....the govt leaves the intel behind and the agency pics up on it....then the whole crew is guilty.

I am familiar with the men involved in setting up the patsy for the MLK killing....

That guy is singing like a bird now that he sees everyone dying off either way as the govts just clean house.....

He took the deal and they left him to be executed.....then to rot in prison to keep the secret safe......

These guys dont care......thats the big part.......it corrupts the little guy and they skirt away....

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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Eric X on March 6th 2017, 12:47 am

do you think troy Houghton was the 'raul' that james earl ray spoke of?
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Re: Mind control in the bay area

Post by Eric X on March 6th 2017, 12:49 am

"These guys dont care"

exactly! someone could come forward and spill EVERYTHING from the last 50+ years and it still wouldn't matter. these people will do their best to hide the truth and if they were unable to do that they would just say 'oh well, nobody can do a damn thing about it anyways' and they are right. nobody can do anything about any of it.
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