The Watch left @ the scene

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The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 11th 2016, 8:36 am

I believe the watch was planted but either way planted or left by accident  there may be a way to tie it to a person .
Back in 66 those watches 17 jeweled mechanical hairspring  type needed a cleaning and oil the jewels every 1/2 year  if you were a young active person or it could damage it beyond fixing .
It was only say $1.50 to have it done   not knowing the time and being late was a sure way to get fired esp if union
the jewelers would scratch a tiny mark using a jewelers  loop  for their shop or them and then one for what was done to the watch , so another jeweler could understand it too ,maybe call them up and ask about it ,the customer  
so if the watch had multible marks as this inside the back cover it would lead to a jeweler or 2 and they would know whose watch it was or had been


Last edited by Don Pseuym on August 23rd 2016, 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 14th 2016, 8:04 pm

I think it was left intentionally, otherwise the killer was very careless. Some people have said it could be a clue to say 'the Minutemen' were behind the murder. IIRC wasn't there some big Minutemen bust earlier that day on the east coast?
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Metal Years on August 14th 2016, 10:25 pm

Don P, that's an excellent observation. Does anyone know if LE ever investigated this idea? If a lot of watches were like that back then I think there's a good chance they checked it out. I believe ALA's Zodiac watch was also confiscated in conjunction with a search warrant. Does R'side PD even have that Timex anymore or did they give it back to Ross?

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 15th 2016, 8:30 pm

Metal Years wrote:Don P, that's an excellent observation. Does anyone know if LE ever investigated this idea? If a lot of watches were like that back then I think there's a good chance they checked it out. I believe ALA's Zodiac watch was also confiscated in conjunction with a search warrant. Does R'side PD even have that Timex anymore or did they give it back to Ross?

I can't be certain but I imagine they did investigate all aspects of the watch and why it was left behind. Haha @ the Ross comment.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 15th 2016, 9:58 pm

You never know , maybe they did not  or it did not have any marks  inside
That watch was somewhat rare and expensive  so  as famous as the case was then  IMO anyone  who had owned one would have  looked it over ,

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by ophion1031 on August 15th 2016, 11:18 pm

Rocketman wrote:I think it was left intentionally, otherwise the killer was very careless. Some people have said it could be a clue to say 'the Minutemen' were behind the murder. IIRC wasn't there some big Minutemen bust earlier that day on the east coast?

Correct. The East Coast Minutemen were busted earlier in the day and Robert DePugh supposedly made threats at a Minutemen rally that evening. That rally was held somewhere in the Los Angeles area. If the threat of violence WAS carried out, maybe it was Cheri Jo who was the victim and maybe her killer left that watch to say that the Minutemen were responsible. I don't think the police ever looked into that possibility, but it is possible that they did.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 16th 2016, 7:16 am

Rocketman wrote:
Metal Years wrote:Don P, that's an excellent observation. Does anyone know if LE ever investigated this idea? If a lot of watches were like that back then I think there's a good chance they checked it out. I believe ALA's Zodiac watch was also confiscated in conjunction with a search warrant. Does R'side PD even have that Timex anymore or did they give it back to Ross?

I can't be certain but I imagine they did investigate all aspects of the watch and why it was left behind. Haha @ the Ross comment.

that practice of code like symbols for indicating who worked on it and what was done started in the 1800's or before, so they ... the FBI had to know to look . but likely did not want to give that telling clue away .
I'd bet they set the watch near a POI in the interview room to see thier response ,that could be very telling

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 16th 2016, 10:17 pm

I have always thought the watch was a major clue but a lot of researchers seem to overlook it and brush it aside as if it were not a clue.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Metal Years on August 16th 2016, 11:04 pm

Ophion, thanks for the chuckle at my sarcastic remark.
R'man, I agree it's a major clue. I read on (I think) ZKS that it waz a size 7 watch and thus too small to be Ross Sullivan's. I believe it also had a lot of paint on it. Why would Ross have paint on his watch (if it waz even his watch)? Don P has a great idea about the watch at the top of this thread.
I've mentioned before that I don't have a Z POI, but there are 4 individuals who really stand out to me and Ross is one of them. He's the only one of the four who I had never heard of before I started reading Z message boards when I discovered them a couple of years ago. A lot of things point to him being a good suspect especially for the attack on poor Cheri Jo Bates, but the two aforementioned watch-related clues would seem to make him a little less likely to be the perp.
  Y'all have a good one!

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 17th 2016, 8:00 pm

Well Ross apparently was an artist, somewhat so that could explain the paint. I'm not saying it was his watch or anything though.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Metal Years on August 20th 2016, 12:34 am

Good point, R'man. I don't know why but I've always construed the paint on the watch to be Sherman Williams, not Winsor & Newton. Actually, on a college campus, the latter is probably at least as likely as the former.
Of course, the type of paint is something that the po-po could have tested for if they'd wanted to and thought of it.
Didn't the pseudonymous Bob Barnett have some kind of construction job?

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 20th 2016, 8:07 pm

I have always wondered if the police even did any type of research on the watch and if so, what exactly did they do and what were their conclusions? I honestly know nothing about Barnett other than he was the Riverside PD's top suspect. I need to get to the other sites and read up on the guy.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 21st 2016, 12:09 pm

ophion may know but others likely not but here is my story about finding CJB items @ this page
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-eve-of-all-hallows
on the left side of the page

the blood on the school book store done tablet was coagulated very much ,which only leaves one possibility to me ,that the killer left/fled the scene ,but probably returned after not hearing or seeing any police in the area hours later, at that time he took the items I found 40 yrs later

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 21st 2016, 8:56 pm

Thanks for the link Don. Very interesting story. Were you into or even familiar with the Zodiac case before you found those items?
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 22nd 2016, 11:02 am

No Rocketman ,  I barely have a rememberence  of  the zodiac killer in 69 , a kid down the st. was talking of it  and the teachers were,.. on break ,but I was shielded from it at home.
I knew he was a bad   serial killer out in Cal.  and later in SF area . And had not any real interest in the story ,not looking online , didn't read any books on it. renting the Zodiac movie in 09 the paul stine and mostly the Cheri B names , hit me like a ton of bricks
When I was looking at the items ,I thought someone  was living up there  & these were their things .
It wasn't untill  late 2010 or 2011 watching Zodiac  07 movie  that it all hit me.   As I looked at and thru that tablet closely  
I put the cab keys in my pocket as I knew no one should have them ,and I would give them back to Yellow , but then thought they were so old they would not want them anyway , could be like  a sovenere Laughing   and put them back  .
    also did not want to deal with our police  .... they down play crime ,among other things ... back then Twisted Evil  I tried emailing Y Cab  SF but no answer , maybe I should call  to have them take a look at the keys  huh
later that night I knew I should have taken the satchel to give it to police ,I went back 2 or 3 days later but everything was gone   .... note a  old silenced luger wrapped up in a  black leather hood near the satchel , is what sent my legs ,,  a running ( I picked the gun up after the satchel)

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 22nd 2016, 7:59 pm

So you lived in the bay area at the time of the Z murders? Are there pics online of the items you found? I will check that link again, but didn't notice pics when I looked the other day.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 22nd 2016, 7:59 pm

Nevermind I see the pic of the tablet now.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 23rd 2016, 9:25 am

Rocketman wrote:So you lived in the bay area at the time of the Z murders? Are there pics online of the items you found? I will check that link again, but didn't notice pics when I looked the other day.

Nope K C Metro area, lifelong resident . you see where it says I found them ,the road ..right ?

you need a fast connect or the pics do not display always (the tablet and cab keys pic )
there is more I posted about it @ ZKS Ace ventura


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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 23rd 2016, 10:14 am

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE THIS  post as I may take it down

but I have tried to contact police depts out there in Cal.  only one would talk to me really a Det. Jim

I talked to him before I had the drawing of the tablet done  ( which is kind of representative of how it was ,the lettering was very complicated to do, that pic cost $100 ) I drew the keys

Then I thought the better drawing would be of interest to him  , so I sent one  ,but didn't get a call from him ,so I called  I think he had the evelope on his desk and just opened it then ,he said he wanted to look into it and would call back basicly . BTW he said they still get around
80+ letters a day on Zodiac

also I mentioned her other items in the satchel , i said I think her purse was there too  ,I described it as the trim on her jewerely matched the purse ,and it was what a teen would have in it   only some tissue a drivers license and 1 dollar a few pennies ,dime  all of it rotted turned to basicly lint ,  I started to talk of other items and  Det. Jim  stopped me saying "tell me about the purse again" , which I did ,but I had really gone into detail the 1st time ,so thought it was odd .  I told of some other items and he wanted to hear the details of the purse a 3rd time .

he wanted to look into this Tablet drawing and said he would get back to me .

At like  10: 10  am the next day I get his call and he is frantic to know exactly where I found the satchel ,and i could hear another cop there by the phone ,it seemed as this cop was relaying what I said over the phone ,likely to KCPD who were out there looking for it ...they were.
Det jim wanted to know how far from a  intersecting road it  was and I didn't know exactly ,I knew / wanted to tell it in relation from a trail , I sai d the  Park rangers would know the trail I am talking of .
So it sure seems to me he checked out the tablet with RCC  or someone from back then that would know and they said ,yeah thats what it looked like  or he would not have wanted the search done and as  immediate, that was 8 am their time

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 23rd 2016, 10:22 am

Oh and I forgot  
2 hours later that day  I needed to go to Sprawl Mart.
 I took that road ,by the site and see a police unmarked with two older 55-60,s? Det. or leut. or  capt. ? walking back to it  down the trail

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 23rd 2016, 8:24 pm

That is some crazy stuff that Z put it all in a satchel and ditched it. Do you think maybe he felt the cops were getting close? I can't think of another reason to ditch those items.
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 23rd 2016, 8:46 pm

Oh he wasn't ditching it ....he was nearby I'm sure and took them with him
and it is fairly normal for that type killer to have something to help him remember the act


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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 24th 2016, 7:59 pm

I'm confused. Why did he ditch the stuff and risk getting caught?
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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Don Pseuym on August 25th 2016, 12:03 pm

It is a long story , my book , this was off in a place most would not go, getting there a bit precarious I happened to be there early in the morning like 7 am .
I think he was there overnight

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Re: The Watch left @ the scene

Post by Rocketman on August 27th 2016, 9:30 pm

Oh ok. Ophion is going to borrow your book to me if you don't mind so I can get the full picture.
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