"He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

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"He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on October 28th 2016, 3:33 pm

When it comes to the Police spoke to Zodiac vs Police drove by Him but didn't speak to Zodiac argument, We have Zodiac to claim He certainly was accosted by SFPD, with SFPD's Don Fouke dismissing any such claim by adamantly denying it ever happened. Well, Zodiac isn't really a trustworthy source, He's not a fountain of Honesty without motive to lie. Neither is SFPD in order to avoid the blushes of their own incompetence. So, how do you decide which of these two opposing claims is the correct one? Well, for Me, the answer is: Dianna Zelms.

  Eric's widow Dianna Zelms is the one person who has no personal interest or motive to lie and, in fact, has all the motive and reason to be truthful. Why? She's talking about Her Late Husband, The Father of Her Child. As such, I would suggest that Dianna and anything She states, She is doing so as honestly and accurately as she possibly can when speaking of what Eric told Her. Anyone who tells Me it's a plausible theory that Dianna is lying to deliberately defame and damage the Name of the Man she loved and lost is a lunatic themselves if they ask me to consider such rubbish. Readers are free to believe that no oral encounter took place between Zodiac and Police, people can believe whatever they so with. But I won't accept anyone telling Me Widow Zelms is lying because She has no reason to do so and every reason to recount the truth to honor, not defame, Her late Husbands Name.

 So, Dianna stated that Her late Husband not only spoke to her about this incident on October 11, but had done so at length and stated that after it became clear that it was actually Zodiac responsible and that in all probability the white male they spoke with, Dianna said this had a profound impact on Eric to the point where right up to the day He died, He carried the P.H Composite with Him every time He was on duty taking it everywhere just in-case, Said Dianna, He came across Him again. Dianna stated that She is aware Don Fouke adamantly denies stopping to speak with a man that night and Dianna said she cannot speak as to Fouke's statement on this issue but could, She said, speak about what Her late Husband Eric had said about it. 

 Dianna stated that Her Late Husband had told Her that as He and Don were coming up the hill, He (Not Don) noticed a male on the sidewalk and drew Don's attention to His sighting and Don Slowed. Eric then called this Man over who, Dianna recalls Eric saying:

 "He was just your average looking guy, nothing stood out about Him. We spoke to Him face to face. I saw no sign of nervousness with Him, nothing at all to make Don and I suspicious of Him. He spoke softly and in a calm voice and He answered all of our questions. We had absolutely no reason to be suspicious of Him that night at all."

 Now this 'Face to Face' questioning would be far more consistent and believable as to how Fouke could give the extremely detailed description He gave rather than it being a description given from a glance to His right noting a WMA for 5 or 10 second as He continued uphill passing Him. 

 To Be Continued. . .

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on October 28th 2016, 3:46 pm

A glance over at A Man who He immediately claims He  realized was White and therefore, Completely uninterested in Him. Yet for a Man who Don was totally uninterested in and drove right by not stopping, Don was able to give us the following description of Un-Sub WMA:


 "White Male Adult. Aged between 35 - 45. Wearing a Blue (Royal or Navy Blue) Parka Type Jacket. Jacket Zipped part way up. It had elasticated Waist and Cuff's with a regular Flap down collar. He had a crew cut with a distinctive widows peak.   Light colored hair with a reddish tint and possibly graying at rear. Brown (Rust Brown) colored Pleated Pants which were unusual for the period, these were baggy at the rear. Wore an Engineering Type Boot, Tan in Color. "

 This description He recalls from A WMA who was no interest at all to Him as He sped by Him without stopping at night, Donald Claims. 

 My Response to this is: Sir, With Respect, Fouke Off!


Last edited by WelshChappie on December 24th 2016, 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by Rocketman on October 29th 2016, 8:44 pm

I'm just not sure what to make of all of this because it seems weird that Z could talk to officers right after he murdered someone and stay completely calm during the conversation. Plus he should have blood visable on him right? I'm not saying this didn't happen or couldn't happen but it does seem a bit weird.
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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on November 29th 2016, 5:33 am

Rocketman wrote:I'm just not sure what to make of all of this because it seems weird that Z could talk to officers right after he murdered someone and stay completely calm during the conversation. Plus he should have blood visable on him right? I'm not saying this didn't happen or couldn't happen but it does seem a bit weird.

Well it is interesting to note that at Pacific Heights, Zodiac took time at the cab and seemed either oblivious or unconcerned with the possibility of being seen and casually walked away. Lindsey Robbins, the eldest of the three teen witnesses in Presidio Heights, ran out of the front door and stood at the intersection and watched Zodiac as He traversed 'Casually' the entire length of Cherry Street. Lindsey said that when the first response vehicle arrived (Armond and Frank) Zodiac was still within view at or near the end of Cherry Street.

I've said before that Zodiac being so calm is odd and unusual. If we look at Bryan Hartnell's statement of Two weeks previous, He states that He noted that when Zodiac came to re-tie or tighten His restraints He noticed that Zodiac's hands were shaking and asked Z "Are you nervous?" to which Z replied with a chuckle "Yeah, You could say that."

"Plus he should have blood visable on him right?"

Well if you subscribe to the theory that Z was up front then yes. However, if Zodiac rode and shot Paul from the rear seats, ie behind and to the right of Paul, then No. I think it was Rebecca who said She witnessed Zodiac in the front passenger side with Paul's head in His lap. If Zodiac shot Paul in the head then pulled Paul's body down and had Paul's head laying in His lap then no doubt Zodiac should have had a large amount of blood on His groin area. But was the witness mistaken? From the witness vantage point the passenger side would have been furthest away from Her view. And even if she is correct and Z did have blood on His pleated pants, Don said they were rusty brown on color which, at night, would be hard to distinguish from blood which is a similar color.

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by Rocketman on November 29th 2016, 11:32 am

The three teens that saw a 'scuffle' ... the 8 year old witness was not in that same house correct? Just want to make surw I understand correctly, the 8 year old was across the street and looked out the window to see Z walking away from the crime scene?
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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on November 30th 2016, 6:27 am

Rocketman wrote:The three teens that saw a 'scuffle' ... the 8 year old witness was not in that same house correct? Just want to make surw I understand correctly, the 8 year old was across the street and looked out the window to see Z walking away from the crime scene?

We don't know for sure who the eight year old was or where they were located. But He/She was not one of the three Robins kids who saw what they thought was a scuffle, that much we do know.

The report states that the Eight year old witness was a 'Witness in murder of Taxi driver' which suggests that they saw Zodiac at the cab. Also, the fact that the report states that this witness was able to 'Identify' a suspect as 'Possible subject in the matter' also implies that this witness saw the suspect at the cab committing the crime.

The analogy I used over at Richards ZodiacCiphers.com site is this:

If I stole a bar of chocolate from a shop and report stated that "RocketMan, witness in the bar of chocolate theft, identified WelshChappie as possible subject responsible in this matter" then that implies that You, Rocketman, were at the scene and that You saw Me, or a person You believed to be Me, in the act of committing the theft itself. Otherwise, the police would not and could not state that You are "Witness in the bar of chocolate theft" if you were not there at the scene of the theft to see Me do it.

Some have suggested that the Eight year old simply saw a WMA on Jackson or walking in the area. This cannot be the case because the report is clear in what it declares and that is "Witness in Murder of Taxi Driver" means they saw the crime in progress, followed by "Identified Anthony as possible subject in the matter" which clearly implies they identified a suspect because they saw Him at the crime scene. Again, You cannot Identify Me, or anyone else for that matter, as the person responsible for a crime if you were not there at the scene when that said crime was committed. Also, The Police simply would'nt accept a positive Identification of a suspect if the person giving it had  not even seen the suspect in the act of committing the crime itself.

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on November 30th 2016, 6:41 am

But yes, from the wording of the police report, the witness had to be at or near the scene, probably in a home overlooking it but not One of the Robbins Teens.

Incidentally, Richard had done some research into this and found a resident aged Eight Years, Three Months living in the residence overlooking the crime scene. It is, in all probability, this person the report makes reference to.

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on November 30th 2016, 6:58 am

I've always said, even before the release of Xenophon Anthony's name, that Zodiac's threat to 'wipe out a school bus some morning' is a masked threat to the specific school child He knows ID'd Him. The threat was a veiled threat at a school child rather than school children. Zodiac Himself seems to later confirm this threat was not a general threat against a school bus full of kids by declaring in a later letter: "If you cops think I am going to take on a school bus the way i stated I would, You deserve to have holes in your heads."

Note Zodiac says "The way I stated I would" which to Me seems like He's admitting the way He said He said He'd take on a school bus was never to be taken at face value and the threat was toward a witness of school age rather than a school bus. He then chins them for not working that out saying if they believed He'd go after school buses the way He stated He would, then they are so stupid they deserve to have holes in their heads.

If this is a masked threat toward the eight year old witness who Identified Zodiac, then it suggests that Xenophon's ID by this witness was accurate and that Xen is and was Zodiac because if Zodiac knew that A witness had identified an innocent person as being possibly responsible, then He'd have no need to threaten the witness and would likely be in His own favor to allow the authorities to believe the witness knowing He had ID'd the wrong person. The fact that Zodiac threatens school children, or what I believe is a specific school kid, suggests that the school kid had in all probability ID'd the correct suspect which is why the suspect responded by threatening Him to keep His mouth shut.

The writer has been seen by cops remember, so it never made sense that knowing He'd been seen by Don and Eric, He'd fire off a letter a day later announcing that He was actually Zodiac because not Police know what Zodiac looks like if He does this. If He just kept quiet and wrote no letter then nobody would be any wiser and Paul's murder would forever be a cab robbery gone wrong and nobody would attribute it to Zodiac. But He writes the letter anyway knowing it will mean Cops now know what He looks like but I think He had to write it because He wanted to instill fear in the Kid who ID'd Him by revealing that He is not simply some average criminal, but, in fact, He is the ruthless, cold blooded and infamous, Zodiac!

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by ophion1031 on December 3rd 2016, 8:06 pm

Anyone have some luck finding more info on Xen? I agree that the threat on the bus was in hopes to silence the 8 year old witness. I think Z probably looked into the window where the 8 year old was stationed and they locked eyes. Z didn't have time to do anything about it at that time because he had to flea. I could be wrong, that does happen quite often.
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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on February 15th 2017, 11:55 am

Zodiac had no time? Ha d to flea? You could be Wrong? 

 I suspect You may be, Chad. Zodiac had plenty of time to clean the cab inside and out because imagine if The City Pig Dave Toschi arrived at the Taxi Crime scene and it was not left for Him clean, tidy and as new? 

 And who would Zode be fleeing from? Oserved by Numerous witnesses, spoken to by Patrolmen basically at the scene or as close as you can be without being at the cab itself?  Don Fouke and Co. claim they had been issued an erroneous Racial Description. I am extremely skeptical of this claim of incorrect race given and even if it had would make no difference because a good minute or two before Don arrives at Cherry, Armond updated the error because He "Couldn't get to the radio fast enough to let everybody else know."

 So, ither way, when Fouke encounters The Lumbering Male, He simply has to know He's White. When I put this to Fouke He produced the photograph below with a felt penned in "Officers D.Fouke & E. Zelms - Taken 10/11/1969, 10:03pm. . . . "

 

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by ophion1031 on February 16th 2017, 2:10 am

Police Academy... hell yeah!!!

So here is a question for you, Alex... what do you make of the "negro male" description that went out over the radio? Do you think that was done intentionally by someone to give Z some time to get out of the area? I wonder this quite a bit, and I have no idea what to think about it. I mean, that is a pretty massive fuck up!
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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on February 16th 2017, 5:45 am

ophion1031 wrote:Police Academy... hell yeah!!!

So here is a question for you, Alex... what do you make of the "negro male" description that went out over the radio? Do you think that was done intentionally by someone to give Z some time to get out of the area? I wonder this quite a bit, and I have no idea what to think about it. I mean, that is a pretty massive fuck up!

No I don't think the Negro Male description was issued deliberately to allow Z to escape the area. I don't believe the incorrect description was ever issued at all and have My reasons for that. I was telling Richard over on His site the reasons why and He Subsequently wrote an article outlining My reasons.

 That Article, entitled 'Black Male Adult', can be viewed here which will give you My personal thoughts on the whole claim of a description error: 

   http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/black-male-adult

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by WelshChappie on February 16th 2017, 6:20 am

That article above was written long before I got Xenophon Anthony's Name release. I believed back then, before finding out that Xenophon was the man A witness Identified who lived there on Jackson Street, that Don Fouke allowed the WMA He spoke with to walk away after establishing that that WMA was A local resident and as such, had an innocent explanation to be there. 

 Fouke Himself Hints at this when He is speaking in the 'This is the Zodiac Speaking' Documentary saying: "I didn't think about it in My report (the encountering of the WMA on Jackson Street) because I assumed He (Offender) did not live in that area."  Don Fouke's comment there, to Me, clearly implies that He knew that the Man He had spoken to did, in fact, live in that area which is why He let Him go and did not mention this encounter in His initial post crime reports. 

 In other words, what I personally think Don Fouke was saying there in that comment without actually stating it but only implying it was, in My own words, this: 

 "I didn't think about mentioning that Man when I wrote My report because I assumed that the offender did not live in that upper middle class area and this White Male I spoke with did, in fact, live just down the street." 

 That's My own interpretation of what Fouke is saying. Below is the link to the part in the Documentary where Fouke is asked why He didn't mention this Man and the encounter in His report. . .

  https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=1h27m50s

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Re: "He was completely calm and answered all of our questions. . ."

Post by Rocketman on February 18th 2017, 10:53 pm

Thanks for the link to that story, I really enjoyed reading it.

Now let us accept the widely held view that the description the police received was that of a "black male, 5'8" in height, rimmed glasses, dark clothing, heavy build, reddish-blond hair and a crew cut."

That made me laugh, just picturing a negro male with a reddish-blond crewcut. That would look so funny.

I always wondered why Fouke never mentioned the man in his report because it wasn't too long after his run in with Z that the error was corrected. You would think he would have came forward right after dispatch corrected the error and sent out the update that the suspect was a white male. Even if he didn't think it was Z that he ran into he still should have immediately mentioned any and every person that he saw or came in contact with.
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