Attempting to get the details about Xenophon & His Ident. . .

Just a quick note/update to let those know who may have an interest, I have emailed Oliver Hines,  Harvey's  Brother,  asking Him could He help to get hold of any additional info on Xenophon and/or His identification. I cited Oliver's Law Enforcement Background and the doors this will open for Him that for a Non Retired cop would remain slammed shut. 

 Here the email I sent Him, and when He replies, I'll post the update accordingly:


  Basically I am writing You to ask You for Your Help and if You personally may not be able to help, maybe You could offer advice.


As I've mention before, there is an FBI document that makes reference to A Fourth Witness in Presidio Heights and this witness actually Identifying a suspect. This Year, after two failed previous attempts, I got the redacted suspects name released. (Turns out He had only passed away in Jan this year which then, as you know, means the privacy Laws no longer prevent His Name being released. 


 The Doc. states the "WITNESS IN MURDER OF TAXI DRIVER IDENTIFIED XENOPHON L. ANTHONY, 3218 JACKSON STREET, SF AS POSSIBLE SUBJECT IN THIS MATTER."


 Basically, I have been, from the moment I first came across the above statement (Mentioned as a foot-note in passing) I have been just completely perplexed as to how and why this information was never recorded anywhere in SFPD's police reports. Nobody ever knew of this witness or suspect ident. and while I wouldn't expect the media to Name the suspect, I would have thought that any identification made, especially by A witness who has seen the suspect in the act of the crime itself, would be a big break in a case like the Zodiac Investigation yet, nothing is known like where the witness saw, did the witness give police a Name after recognizing the suspect or was a suspect picked up & driven back to the area of the witness who the observed Him in rear seat of Patrol Car and made ident. that way and etc etc.


 Basically Oliver, I am contacting You because I would like to know:  With your Law Enforcement Background and potential avenues that this brings, would there be anything You could do or a person in active service that could find any details whatever in relation to XENOPHON LUSBY ANTHONY. WIDOW: VALERIE ANTHONY.  The link below shows Xenophon's Obituary. Please could You let Me know even if to offer some simple advice. 


   Thank You, appreciate it, 

Welsh Chappie, I went to the Stine crime scene last night. I did as you asked and mentioned Mr. Anthony's name the others who were there. We walked several long blocks towards his home on Jackson st. It was so far that I couldn't go any further , after doing the Zodiac walk several times up and down Jackson st,to a few of the places we felt Zodiac was able to hide from the police that night. My opinion of him being a good suspect went down hill , when I saw how far away it was from the crime scene. Zodiac would never have walked that far after shooting Stine. 3218 would have taken over 15 min to get from the crime.

I was told that there is a picture of Mr. Anthony? If so could you please share it with us, to see if he looks like the SFPD composite? Thanks

sandy betts wrote:Welsh Chappie, I went to the Stine crime scene last night. I did as you asked and mentioned Mr. Anthony's name the others who were there. We walked several long blocks  towards his home on Jackson st. It was so far that I couldn't go any further , after doing the Zodiac walk several times up and down Jackson st,to a few of the places we felt Zodiac was able to hide from the police that night. My opinion of him being a good suspect went down hill , when I saw how far away it was from the crime scene. Zodiac would never have walked that far after shooting Stine.  3218 would have taken over 15 min to get from the crime.

I was told that there is a picture of Mr. Anthony? If so could you please share it with us, to see if he looks like the SFPD composite? Thanks

Sandy, if I killed in My own area, I would do so at an absolute minimum 10 min walking time distance away from my home because within that zone of the ten minute travelling time, so many people know Me certainly by sight,  if not Name bases as so many do too.

 He's going to want to put distance between His crime and Home, if it was own Home He was heading to. If He lives in that area, which He did, then unless Xenophon is a Reclusive House Hermit, He likely knew many of the people who lived all along that Jackson Street.

 This is Him but 10/15 years younger than His age of 38 as He was in 69, followed by a photo of Him much older and later in life:


  

Notice the clear facial shape and structure and general look very close to the composite? And, uhhhh, what is that already visible widows peak type hairline doing on His head? 

 Could just be coincidence obviously.

 Tell you what isn't coincidental though nor open to question:

 The fact a witness had 'identified' him as the Man who killed Paul and in doing so identified Xenophon Anthony, that man above, as the San Francisco Zodiac Killer.

sandy betts wrote:Welsh Chappie, I went to the Stine crime scene last night. I did as you asked and mentioned Mr. Anthony's name the others who were there. We walked several long blocks  towards his home on Jackson st. It was so far that I couldn't go any further , after doing the Zodiac walk several times up and down Jackson st,to a few of the places we felt Zodiac was able to hide from the police that night. My opinion of him being a good suspect went down hill , when I saw how far away it was from the crime scene. Zodiac would never have walked that far after shooting Stine.  3218 would have taken over 15 min to get from the crime.

I was told that there is a picture of Mr. Anthony? If so could you please share it with us, to see if he looks like the SFPD composite? Thanks

 I didn't want to know whether other people think He's Zodiac and get supports on My Xenophon band wagon. You know Me well enough to know Hun that if every other person on the Planet thought Zodiac was Marshall, or Gaik, whoever, and I was standing alone with the Xen theory that I really did think this theory was One I believed in, then stand alone I would.  

 I know I can safely say No other Person or suspet was or ever has been identified by a witness who saw Him, as The Zodiac Killer. Xenophon Himself carried that distinction all these years without a any of us (By us, I mean researchers who know this case inside out and everything associated with/to it. . .At least We all thought We did! 

 When I asked Hun to mention Xen and the ident incident I meant to see if they had heard anything of it or, the ultimate hope I had was that....Ohhh, what's His Name....The Detective that You were out at Presidio Heights anniversary with a few years ago? Bald guy? Anyway, I  was hoping He would be there again, or a colleague of His or even 'The Top Man' Himself, Toschi. 

 Sandy Hun if A Detective contacted Me (Via Phone, Email, Whatever) and said after introducing Himself proceeded to tell Me what happened, give me an explanation why Xen's Ident was not recalled in reports etc and basically explain why it looks a certain way but actually isn't and if what He tells me both makes sense logically and answers what on the face of it looks highly suspicious, but now I know of Fact A and Fact B, it makes sense now is completely benign, if I could get just a few satisfactory answers/explanations from a person who knows, I'll be able to drop the idea and put Xen on the sidelines.

 But, with all these unanswered questions and missing details with the only know fact being He was identified by a witness as being the Zodiac, which is THE ONE SINGLE STAND ALONE PIECE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AGAINST ANY SUSPECT IN THIS CASE LINKING A SUSPECT BY NAME,  ONE THAT WITNESS SAID IS "POSSIBLE SUBJECT, SUBJECT IS ZODIAC, IN  THIS MATTER

 There is No way on Earth I will give up with Xenophon as a suspect, not until someone gives Me A reason to!

I think walking more than 10 minutes after a murder would make sense. But then again, SF is full of hills and a 3/4 mile walk might be a pain in the arse. I'm not sure if there are many hills in that particular area or not. But then again, he may have hid out at Qvale's home or somewhere else on Jackson instead of going home. Do we know what Xen was doing for work in 1969? His obit says he worked in retail and wholesale business until 1976, so I'd assume that is what he was doing in 1969. If I'm not mistaken, I think an old guy on Jackson did the same type of work, the guy who lived at the address that Z walked up to after he was spotted. I forget the old guy's name at the moment. It would be interesting if he and Xen were co-workers.
EDIT: Fred W. Bloch is the man who lived at 3712 Jackson.

ophion1031 wrote:I think walking more than 10 minutes after a murder would make sense. But then again, SF is full of hills and a 3/4 mile walk might be a pain in the arse. I'm not sure if there are many hills in that particular area or not. But then again, he may have hid out at Qvale's home or somewhere else on Jackson instead of going home. Do we know what Xen was doing for work in 1969? His obit says he worked in retail and wholesale business until 1976, so I'd assume that is what he was doing in 1969. If I'm not mistaken, I think an old guy on Jackson did the same type of work, the guy who lived at the address that Z walked up to after he was spotted. I forget the old guy's name at the moment. It would be interesting if he and Xen were co-workers.
EDIT: Fred W. Bloch is the man who lived at 3712 Jackson.

 Yes....

 Fred Bloch, as far as I could determine from the limited research I did, had a share in numerous businesses which seemed to suggest He was an investor. Fred Bloch had interests in a textile factory (which, if you wanted to you could raise an eyebrow at Zodiac having a white cross-hair neatly stitched into His hood) and also a glove making factory. 

 Fred's Wife, Helen B. Bloch, She was a Youth Court Judge. I did find out that Helen B. Bloch's Middle Initial represented 'Bissinger' which is her maiden name. Helen Bissinger Bloch had a couple of Brothers who I thought were very interesting for a while, not least due to one of them owning a property right in front of JK Park on West Pacific Avenue and His officer was right in the area where Paul Scoops up Z.

Oh wow... I didn't know that anyone had even researched the Bloch's. Good stuff. If I'm not mistaken, weren't they pretty elderly in 1969?

ophion1031 wrote:Oh wow... I didn't know that anyone had even researched the Bloch's. Good stuff. If I'm not mistaken, weren't they pretty elderly in 1969?

 Well to be Zodiac yes, Fred was too old. He and wife Helen were still Working though, so I don't think they were that old. To be honest Chad I looked into them and their residence of 3712 a long while ago now. 

 I know Helen Brother was Heavily involved with One of the Downtown Theater's and don't quote Me on this, but I am almost sure He was something like Stage Manager or some position where He could and did have an active role and say in things that went on in the theater.  

 Let Me check and I'll let you know for sure. I don't like to post something I am not 100%  sure of from memory so I'll see if I can dig it up again.

I think odds are that Zodiac just walked up to the nearest house because he knew he had been spotted, but maybe not. Maybe he had some sort of connection to the Bloch's.

ophion1031 wrote:I think odds are that Zodiac just walked up to the nearest house because he knew he had been spotted, but maybe not. Maybe he had some sort of connection to the Bloch's.

No I totally agree. I think He saw Don and Eric and panicked and just by instinct turned up those steps because He's walking directly toward the Intersection that they are just approaching. He probably just wanted to avoid walking right By Eric who's in the passenger side of the Cop Car and Zodiac is on the North side of the Street. If Eric lowers the window He's basically a foot or so away from Zodiac who's right there.

 This could explain why our Un-Sub was observed Shuffling with a lurching walking motion as He may possibly have soiled Himself upon spotting His imminent apprehension currently coming through Maple Street's Intersection.

 Explains why Fouke never detained Him in His vehicle too. You don't want 'One in Custody' with 'One in Pleated Pants' also.

I think that was his instinct too and that is why he walked up to that house and probably his in some bushes until the coast was clear before making his way to his intended destination.

Rocketman wrote:I think that was his instinct too and that is why he walked up to that house and probably his in some bushes until the coast was clear before making his way to his intended destination.

 I don't think 3712 or the occupants had any knowledge of involvement in the Z crimes. I do think there is a good chance that the Zodiac used their rear garden to secure Himself within hiding from police. Makes sense to Me: Offender last seen heading down pathway of 3712, a residence with side-gate access to rear garden. Suspect subsequently informed police He was close by giving details of the police Motorcycles and dogs location. 

 If you were in the rear garden of 3712 then you have a wooden fence between Yourself and West Pacific literally the other side of you where all the action along with police bikes and dogs were searching. Again, I am in total agreement with Chief of Homicide Inspectors Martin Lee's opinion that Zodiac is a liar. He was not anywhere on those Grounds in or around the Park because it wouldn't be possible that the search effort the Police put in could have overlooked a hiding suspect. As Lee said: "We searched that entire area tree by tree and bush by Bush. A Mouse could not have escaped our attention. Zodiac was not in that park, He's a Liar!"  I absolutely agree!

Here's a front view of the pathway Z was last seen heading down and at the end of it, which I have highlighted, the Side Gate.

Before He got to the top of the steps though, I am absolutely convinced that just as Z said, "this cop car pulled up and one of them called Me over."

 Using simple logic then,  based on the encounter happening on the North side of Jackson Street and Patrol Vehicle coming up toward Maple, it was, in all probability, Eric Zelms who called The Zodiac over because Eric was the passenger on that same side of Street as the WMA.

So what is the most logical escape route after he hides out in the garden at 3712? I'm trying to visualize this and piece it together. Maybe he hides out for a few minutes but probably not for long because being spotted going up to that house he had to have thought that he wouldn't be safe hiding there very long and that whoever spotted him would eventually come back to search that yard. So he probably stayed 2-3 minutes but then went where? If X. Anthony was Z then he made his way back to his house I'm sure, but what if it was someone who lived in another part of SF? Where did the killer go then?

Pudding club? Bat club?

noticed from the article that he spent 2 years in the army. I never heard of the bat club or hasty pudding club.

why we got 2 threads on Xenophon?

Don't know.
You think We should have Three ?

WelshChappie wrote:Don't know.
You think We should have Three ?

I think we should use the other thread as the 'official' Xen Anthony thread but Chad should change the thread title, taking Robert Hale West's name off the thread title.

Rocketman wrote:

WelshChappie wrote:Don't know.
You think We should have Three ?

I think we should use the other thread as the 'official' Xen Anthony thread but Chad should change the thread title, taking Robert Hale West's name off the thread title.

I agree. im dumb and get confused easily haha so one thread would be better

I would also agree with taking Robert Hale West out of the threads title

But going back to the house and the set steps the Un-Sub was observed turning and ascending, Don originally said he wasn't exactly sure which set of steps it was that the guy went up (there is two sets of steps, one right next to the other). Later Don seems in no doubt which of the two sets of steps it was by declaring once that He had last observed subject walking up steps, down a pathway and into a courtyard. Then, in 2007's 'This is the Zodiac Speaking' Don goes even further saying "You want the address of that residence? Thirty Seven Twelve, Jackson Street."

WelshChappie wrote:I would also agree with taking Robert Hale West out of the threads title

On it!